‘Please Support Our People, Not the Government – They Are Cheating the World’: Mahn Robert Ba Zan

Mahn Robert Ba Zan is a former Karen freedom fighter and an advisor to the Karen Communities of Minnesota. He served in the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) for more than 30 years, following in the footsteps of his father Mahn Ba Zan, the first commander of the Karen National Defence Organisation (KNDO) and a former President of the Karen National Union (KNU). In 2000, Mahn Robert Ba Zan resettled to the United States of America with his family, changing his revolutionary tactics towards raising awareness and educating the Karen and other ethnics. In this interview, Mahn Robert Ba Zan talks about the ceasefire and car permits, ethnic unity, and how the international community can help the Karen in their quest for genuine peace and freedom.

There is no political solution, only ceasefire

According to Mahn Robert Ba Zan, the government is only changing at a surface level in order to further its own political and military gains. The Karen have not benefited from the historical ceasefire that the KNU signed in January 2012.

There is no political solution, only ceasefire. During the ceasefire, they [Burmese military] have been building a stronghold in Karen areas. They fill up all their ammunitions, and they build their bunkers with concrete. They are building very stronghold bunkers. So, on one side there is the ceasefire, but other side is preparing for war.

In some areas such as in Kachin, Shan, and Palaung they [Burmese military] still fight. Now they stopped fighting Karen, but soon they will start again. They already started fighting the DKBA [Democratic Karen Benevolent Army – previously known as Democratic Karen Buddhist Army].

There is no political solution now. There is no Karen State. Ceasefire [for the Burmese military] is to stop fighting so that they can build up military posts and to grab Karen land. So there is no benefit for the Karen people.

They know there is a great gold vein in Karen land, the biggest gold vein in the world. They will never withdraw from Karen land. That is one thing. They want Karen leaders to join with them. They want business in Burma, business in Kachinland. There are a lot of natural resources in Kachinland, Shan land, Palaung land and Karen land, Arakan land. In Burman areas, there is nothing. So they made the military powerful. They want to monopolize all ethnics politically and economically.

Unless they withdraw from our Karen land, unless they take their bombs from Karen land, there will be war forever.

Ethnic armies should unite and form a Federal Army

All ethnic armies should unite and form a Federal Army. And then if the Burmese fight, we fight them together. Only one solution, and one common headquarter for the Federal Army.

My father formed the united front. He was the founder of NDF [National Democratic Front]. His dream was that we will win the war with a united front. Every ethnic as one front and one command to fight.

At the time NDF was very good and very strong. They had northern front, eastern front, and southern front. The enemy was scared. They were scared so they wanted to split NDF.

The Burmese military has many divisions. But we don’t mind. We have a lot of ethnic groups. We know the places and we know the terrain. They don’t know. So we can fight and win revolution with united front.

This is our motto: ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend’. The government is our common enemy, so we are friends.

Now the UNFC [United Nationalities Federal Council] is strong. The enemy is scared of the UNFC, so they want to split KNU from UNFC. Karen people don’t accept that KNU temporarily suspended their membership from the UNFC. Me too, I don’t agree. We don’t want to get out of the UNFC.

But UNFC is still strong. The problem is only temporary. Our permanent goal is to win the war with a united front. That’s our goal.

We can’t fight alone. We fight together.

One day we’ll all be under our Karen flag

Mahn Robert Ba Zan explains how the Burmese military has successfully used bribes to divide the resistance movement. As the ethnic armies are more aware of government military tactics, the Burmese have recently bribed them with car permits instead of money.

The Burmese military is very cunning. They know the military tactics of Sun Tzu, the Chinese military strategy. They know very well about Sun Tzu tactics.

They are scared, so they divide, divide, and divide. They have a strategic command, they know everything. They know that some leaders want money, some like alcohol, some like women. So they split the leadership. They split the Karen revolution.

Now they bribe Karen political leadership with car permits. They give only car permits, no money. The permits were given to the Karen political leadership, to the ones who are willing to sign the ceasefire. Even now inside UNFC, they split KNU.

According to Mahn Robert Ba Zan, money is also the reason why some Karen soldiers joined the BGF [Border Guard Force] under Burmese military command.

It’s because of money, giving, giving. We can’t give money. The Burmese military persuade Karen soldiers with money.

But this is only temporary. It is not ideological. One day we’ll all be under our Karen flag. All Karen groups. Even in BGF, Border Guard Force, and many Karen soldiers will join Karen revolution. One day, all Karen together.

They are cheating the world

To help the ethnic struggle, international community should provide education and health to the Karen people, Mahn Robert Ba Zan says.

We want education, education is key. And we need medicine for Karen people. Sometimes enemy attacks and the people need food. Now international donors have stopped helping the refugees, they even reduced rations to half. So the people need help.

There is still fighting and there are still refugees.

Now the international community changed their front to Rangoon. Because of enemy tactics. They [the Burmese government] say – We made a ceasefire with Karen! No need for refugees there! So, international community is going to Rangoon and they have their projects in Burma, not on the border.

They should support across the border, unless there is peace. If we don’t have peace in Burma, don’t support! Don’t go to Burma!

They are cheating now, they are cheating the world. If they want real peace – Stop fighting in Kachin, Shan and Palaung land!

They have spies, to split KNU

Mahn Robert Ba Zan served in the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) as a company commander, captain, column commander, Deputy Battalion commander and tactical commander for 32 years.

Mahn Robert Ba Zan in KNLA uniform (Photo: https://www.facebook.com/mrobertzan)

I was with the KNLA from 1964 to 1997. First I joined KNLA at Irrawaddy Delta. 1964 to 1969, and then I came to east Kawthoolei.

At the time my father was the chairman of KNU [Karen National Union]. Before General Bo Mya, my father Mahn Ba Zan was the KNU President.